Tuesday, February 18, 2014

so, you got this right?


Once upon a time, all my girlfriends started telling me stories about being asked out on dates, and having to pay for themselves. Literally, a boy asked if they would like to go out with them, and didn't so much as offer to pay. Not only did they not pay, but they didn't mention that the girl would be taking herself out until someone came around with the bill.

Oh. My. If you are reading this and you have found yourself guilty of this crime, consider yourself virtually getting your butt kicked. You're the actual worst.

Listen, I understand that dating in college is hard. I also understand that it can get expensive for you fellas. However, if you are going to ask a girl on a date, you better check your account to make sure you can cover her, plan a cheap/free super fun date, or check your plumbing. Because guess what, men pay for their women. Don't get me wrong, you definitely don't need to be throwing around 100 dollar bills. You don't even need to spend any money at all. I have been on some really awesome adventure dates that only cost the price of gas. But if you offer to take her to anywhere that you will be spending money on yourself, plan to spend on her too, cheapo. That's just how it is supposed to be, and if that sounds like a bad idea to you, you might as well become a eunuch and join a men's choir, because ladies will run from you like the plague.

*Note-I am not directing this towards couples or anyone in a relationship. That is an entirely different ball game. I am talking specifically and entirely about dates before that DTR.

I am vehemently aware that society is far more feministic now than ever. Women want to be the same as men and wear pants to church, blah blah blah. I don't even care. If you take out a woman and she insists on paying for herself, cool, you just saved yourself twenty bucks. But absolutely, under no circumstances should you invite a lady out for lunch, dinner, a game, whatever tickles your fancy, and let her pay for herself. If you don't have the money to cover her, don't invite her to do things that cost money. I have known guys to go give plasma because they are so super poor but want to take a girl on a date. That is adorable.

People today are so concerned about "not expecting" on dates, that no one knows how to date anymore. You know what though, there should be expectations. If you are a man, you are expected to pay for the date you have proposed to take that girl on. That's the most obvious obvious that ever obvioused. Of course, there are other expectations to interject at this current juncture, but I've already written that post.

One of my best friends told me about how a guy offered to take her out for hot chocolate, ordered his drink, and sat down. Needless to say, she felt entirely awkward, and likely won't go out with him again. And sure, many of you read that and might think its ridiculous, but its the principal of the thing! Srsly, he couldn't have forked out an extra 2 dollars in the name of chivalry? Child.

I have guy friends that, when we are just hanging out, not only insist on paying for me, but also open my doors. Maybe I'm spoiled, but guess what--I should be. All girls should think so highly of their friends as I do. I know some really incredible gentlemen. And men should equally be treated well. Guys, even the ones you are just friends with should never question whether you think they are the bees knees. In fact, I firmly advocate that if you take a girl out and treat her nice and she doesn't so much as thank you, you run---run away and never return! But pay for her meal first, ok?

What ees "date"? Juss keesses
Juan Pablo knows. ABC has this enormous allotted money budget for each date, and Juan Pablo just takes all the girls all over the world to sit on rocks and make out. BUT AT LEAST HE DIDN'T LEAVE THEM WITH A BILL


Krissy Bentley said...

HAHA!!! This picture is so awkward - I'm glad you picked it!! Well written as always, Livvy!!

meg said...

"men pay for their women"


If a person asks someone out on a date, the person who asked should pay. It was their idea, right?

Have you ever thought about the super uncomfortable sexual dynamic that happens when exclusively men pay for dates? Man pays for dinner, woman repays by letting him stick his thing in her. That's what the pressure is. If a man takes me out and buys me something, he will expect something in return, either in romantic or sexual favors. Obviously this is not true for many men, but men are taught from day one that if they just treat a girl right she can be "theirs", as you say. If they put enough coins into the vending machine, sex will come out. Having men exclusively pay is sexually coercive.

People should be polite to each other, people should give each other basic respect. This is certainly true in the realm of courtship. However, the rules of respect need not fall on grossly gendered lines.

oliviakaytalley said...

Listen, I don't know what kind of men you go out with, but I have literally never paid for a date, and I have also never put out. I think you are taking that phrase too literally. I'm not saying women are objects to be owned, all I'm saying is--if my man doesn't want to pay for me, that doesn't reflect positively on their capabilities as a potential provider. There are gender roles during courtship. Period. If that's not how you want to date, that's fine. You don't have to. Unquestionably that is how I am going to date.

But don't confuse men acting like gentlemen for men thinking they are "owning" women. That's ludicrous, and I have years of experience, too many dates to count, and my virginity still in tact to back me up on that.

Anonymous said...

"in tact"


Your virginity backs you up.

meg said...

You are just too much. Wow. I'm gonna show this to everyone I know.

oliviakaytalley said...

Please show this to everyone you know. I am not ashamed of anything I have said

oliviakaytalley said...

Also yeah, if you are going to say that boys are all just "putting in the coins for sex," I am going to counter that by telling you that, in my experience, isn't true. Jumping on my saying that I'm still a virgin doesn't make it any less so.

Rebecca Talley said...

Meg, it seems as though you haven't dated any gentlemen. There are men out there who don't expect sex for a date. I'm much older, but I never paid for dates. Ever. And I never put out. Ever. Gentlemen pay for dates. Period. I've told my daughters that if a guy expects her to pay for a date, do not date him. And I've told my sons that they pay. Always. And they are expected to always treat a woman with respect and honor.

As for "anonymous," your comments suggest that you have some issues with Olivia personally. Perhaps jealousy or anger that she won't date you.

oliviakaytalley said...

Thanks babe! I'm glad you like it, haha

oliviakaytalley said...

Hahahaahahaha yeah, so if anyone has ever wondered why I'm so snarky, this is my fantastic mother. She is the best

Kenzie said...

I am interested in why you think that treating a woman with respect and honor means paying for her food. I think its a bit condescending. And maybe even a bit gross; its like he's paying for my company or paying for something worse. Maybe the men/boys you've dated haven't put coins in the machine directly for sex, but they are certainly putting them in for marriage (oh, overeager mormon boys). And we all know that many young mormon adults, my friends included, marry for sex, though we don't like to admit it. That's why there are so many young marriages.

Maybe you guys have never paid for a date because you live in Provo UT, dominated by a religion that has a distinct gender hierarchy. You've got a lot of rules there.

Kenzie said...

Also, why isn't paying for a dude's dinner treating him with respect and honor?

oliviakaytalley said...

Listen, if a boy is taking me out for marriage...he is doing it right. While yes, the majority of my dating life has been spent in Utah, I have also lived and dated men in Colorado and Texas. I did not pay for dates in either of those places.

Men and women have different roles in dating. They always have, and in my opinion, they always should. Keep in mind I am not talking about long term dating, because that I believe is another situation entirely. However, in casual dating, if a guy asks me out and expects me to pay for myself, he is not a man I will go out with again. Now again, this is all just my opinion, and the world is not obligated to share my mindset by any means. To me, the point of going out on a date is to see if the person you are spending your time with is someone with whom you can share eternity. My parents raised me to date the old fashioned way, and so I very much agree with formerly established dating norms. Additionally, in my mind, a man who won't pay for one date causes me to question his dependability as a future provider. Maybe that's not fair or naive, because I haven't been married before, so I haven't made it passed the boyfriend/girlfriend stage, but that's the way I see it. I 100% plan to stay home and raise babies while my husband works to pay for our family. If in courtship, when both people are trying to see if the other is someone they can marry, the man taking me out doesn't express that he is capable and willing to provide for me, it just isnt promising for our future. Dating is generally when people try their hardest to gain the respect and love of another, while giving it themselves. Yes, it is a two way street. However, just as with marriage, the roles of men and women are not the same. So no, I don't believe that my paying for him is how I would show respect. I also dont believe that paying for the date is the only way for him to show me respect. I have gone on dates where, yes the guy paid, but he was so rude to me I would never spend time with him again. I have also been on dates where the guy didn't spend any money on me at all, but he was such a gentleman that we ended up dating for a while.

And in response to the sex factor-yes, I admit that sex is a driving factor for people to get married. But honestly, I think it should be. To have sex with someone is to merge souls, as I have been taught, so yes, you should love someone so much that you can't wait to entirely unite yourselves together. Also, we as human beings are designed to desire and enjoy sex. So its no shame to want that. I will agree, however that if the only reason you are marrying someone is to sleep with them, that is wrong. Sex should not be the only contributing factor, but it should be a factor.

Does that make sense?

Kenzie said...

Thank you for further explaining your point of view. I appreciate it. Thanks also for admitting that sex is a driving factor, so few young mormon couples will admit that.

Anonymous said...

I'd love to date Olivia if only she'd pay for my dinner.

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